discussion:lecture03

Discussion on Lecture 03

Discussion on Lecture 03

Yuming Paul Zhang, 2022/12/17 20:58

Dear all,

As Kai and Joachim had pointed out, from closed graph theorem the constant C depends on x. I am wondering if it is still true that we can find a bound independent of x or not?

Thank you!

Best, Paul

Christian Seifert, 2022/12/21 16:55, 2022/12/21 16:55

Dear Paul, the constant C depends on x and in order to get a uniform constant one needs further properties of b (e.g. that supxXb(x,)<). Best, Christian

Samir BOUJIJANE, 2022/11/15 17:40

Dear all,

First of all many thanks for all the nice lectures and also for the interesting discussions elaborated on here. I have two comments:

  • In the proof of Lemma 2.5(b). I think there's no need to assume that xi are pairwise different. Indeed, it is only used that xixi+1 which is given by the definition of a path.
  • In Theorem 2.10 (Minimal principle). The condition α>0 could be replaced by (α>0 or c(x0)>0) where x0U a vertex where the minimum is reached. This can be easily observed from the inequalities displayed at the end of page 36.

Best regards, Samir

Anna Muranova, 2022/11/11 19:36

Dear lecturers,

thank you for the 3rd lecture.

I have the following question: why in Lemma 2.11 supnyXb(x,y)un(y)=yXb(x,y)u(y) or which formulation of the monotone convergence theorem do you use?

Best, Anna

Kai Jennissen, 2022/11/12 18:56, 2022/11/13 10:32

Dear Anna,

I think this follows with the given definition of m=1 (point measure and X countable) from the Lemma of Beppo Levi (monotone convergence) with fn(y)=b(x,y)un(y) and f(y)=b(x,y)u(y): limnyXb(x,y)un(y)=limnyXfn(y)=limnXfn(y)dm(y)=Xf(y)dm(y)=Xb(x,y)u(y)dm(y)=yXb(x,y)u(y)

Best regards, Kai

Anna Muranova, 2022/11/14 12:07

Dear Kai,

thank you very much!

Indeed, I have been thinking about the theorem which just says, that monotone sequence converges to its supremum.

Best, Anna

Youssef Hakiki, 2022/11/15 18:46, 2022/11/15 18:51

Dear Anna and Kai,

Here is anopther reformulation of the Lemma 2.11

Indeed, consider the measure space X with the measure Bx given by

  $$
  B_x(M):=\sum_{y \in M} b(x,y).
  $$

Since un0 for all nN and unu, then by Beppo-Levy theorem in the space (X,Bx) we infer that

  $$
  \lim_{n\rightarrow \infty}\sum_{y\in X}b(x,y)u_n(y)=\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty}\int_Xu_n(y)dB_x(y)=\int_Xu(y)dB_x(y)=\sum_{y\in X}b(x,y)u(y).
  $$

Now, since unF for all n, we write yXb(x,y)(un(x)un(y))+(c(x)+α)un(x)=(L+α)un(x). Therefore the facts that yXb(x,y)<, (L+α)un(x)f(x) and unu ensures that yXb(x,y)u(y)<.

Best, Youssef

Patrizio Bifulco, 2022/11/11 15:39, 2022/11/11 15:40

Dear all,

many thanks for this nice and interesting third Lecture!

Here are some very minor remarks/questions from my side:

  • At the bottom of page 30 I would suggest to write f(x)2 instead of f2(x).
  • There is a typo in the center of page 31 (when recalling the definition of normal contractions): 'a map' instead of 'at map'.
  • In the proof of Lemma 2.5(d) on page 34 'As the sequence ((fn)' there is a bracket to much.
  • In the proof of Lemma 2.17(b) on page 42 at the end of the third line of the displayed estimate there is a m(y) missing.
  • On page 43 in the definition of κ:=supxXDeg(x) there is a x missing.
  • In part (ii) of Exercise 2, I guess it should read '[…], then Af(x)0' instead of Af0? And do you really mean 'local maximum' here?

Best regards, Patrizio

Christian Seifert, 2022/11/14 12:11

Dear Patrizio,

Many thanks for the reamrks.

Concerning your question: “local maximum” is really meant here.

Best, Christian

Kai Jennissen, 2022/11/10 14:11, 2022/11/11 12:18

Dear all,

I also have a question regarding the proof of Theorem 2.16. I found the part on p. 41 a little tricky therefore I'd like to verify whether my understanding is correct.

From the closed graph theorem we conclude that the map j is linear and bounded and thus the existence of Cx with ||j(f)||1(Nx,b(x,))Cx||f||2(Nx,mNx) follows. Since f2(X,m) is defined on X we constrain the domain of f through composition with 1Nx such that the inequality reads as follows

yXb(x,y)|f(y)|=yNxb(x,y)|f(y)|=yXb(x,y)|f(y)1Nx|=||j(f1Nx)||1(Nx,b(x,))=||f1Nx||1(Nx,b(x,))Cx||f1Nx||2(Nx,mNx)Cx||f1Nx||2(X,m)

Thus the map 2(X,m)fyXφx(y)|f(y)|m(y)=yXb(x,y)|f(y)| is a bounded linear functional, aka. an element of the dual of the Hilbert space 2(X,m). By the Riesz representation theorem there exists a unique element of 2(X,m) such that the functional can be written as inner product. But since yXφx(y)|f(y)|m(y)=φx,f the uniqueness implies this element is given by φx and therefore φx2(X,m).

Best regards, Kai

Christian Seifert, 2022/11/11 12:19

Dear Kai,

You are right and your understanding is correct.

Best, Christian

Kai Jennissen, 2022/11/09 22:28, 2022/11/10 13:37

Dear all,

first of all I want to thank the organizers.

I have difficulties to understand the details of the implication i)iii) in the proof of Theorem 2.18. Given i) and the definition of a(x,y) it's clear that yXa(x,y)m(y)=Deg(x)supxXDeg(x)=:κ and therefore by Lemma 2.17 a) the operator Af(x)=yXa(x,y)f(y)m(y)=1m(x)yXb(x,y)f(y)+c(x)m(x)f(x) is bounded. But how does this imply that L is bounded? Given Lf(x)=1m(x)yXb(x,y)(f(x)f(y))+c(x)m(x)f(x)=f(x)m(x)yXb(x,y)1m(x)yXb(x,y)f(y)+c(x)m(x)f(x)=f(x)Deg(x)Af(x)+c(x)m(x)f(x) I'm not able to verify ||Lf||κ||f||.

Furthermore some minor comments.

  • I think C should be replaced with D in the (iii)(i) section of the proof of Theorem 2.18.
  • Shouldn't it be zXb(y,z)+c(y)Cm(y) instead of zX(b(y,z)+c(z))Cm(y)?

Best regards, Kai

Sahiba Arora, 2022/11/10 00:07

Dear virtual lecturers, dear Kai,

I have the same problem: I get D=3κ and don't see how to make the bound sharper.

Regards,

Sahiba

Kai Jennissen, 2022/11/10 13:38, 2022/11/10 13:38

How did you derive D=3κ?

Best regards, Kai

Sahiba Arora, 2022/11/10 14:41, 2022/11/10 14:41

Dear Kai,

For example, from the last equality in the last displayed equation, each of the last three terms is bounded above by κ.

Regards, Sahiba

Kai Jennissen, 2022/11/10 15:48, 2022/11/10 16:06

The bound for the first two terms was clear but obviously it also holds that c(x)m(x)Deg(x)κ. Thanks.

Regards, Kai

Christian Seifert, 2022/11/11 12:11

Dear Kai and Sahiba,

There is a mistake in this proof and the statement. One needs D=2κ. To prove (i)(iii), set a(x,y):=b(x,y)m(x)m(y) for xy and a(x,x):=0. Then L=DegA (here, Deg considered as a multiplication operator). Now, a bound for Deg provides also a bound for the norm of A, so one obtains the 2κ then.

We'll update the statement and proof in the final version.

Best, Christian

Sahiba Arora, 2022/11/11 12:24

Dear Christian,

Isn't there also a c(x)m(x)f(x) term also as in Kai's last displayed formula?

Regards, Sahiba

Christian Seifert, 2022/11/11 13:18

Dear Sahiba,

Yes indeed; this comes from the Deg as well.

Best, Christian

Sahiba Arora, 2022/11/11 13:28, 2022/11/11 14:32

Dear Christian,

So L=DegA+cm and thus the bound should be 3κ instead of 2κ.

Regards, Sahiba

Sascha Trostorff, 2022/11/11 14:18

Dear all,

since we agree on the bound for Q couldn't we argue as follows:

For f,gCc we know by Greens formula |Lf,g|=|Q(f,g)|2κfg, which yields that φ:gLf,g is a bounded functional which can be uniquely extended to 2. Then by Riesz-Frechet, we know Lf2 and Lf=φ2κf. Clearly, this inequality extends to f2 by density.

Best regards

Sascha

Christian Seifert, 2022/11/11 14:34

Dear Sahiba,

The Deg contains the term cm already, so one gets L=DegA (note that a is zero on the diagonal, see my post above).

Best, Christian

Sahiba Arora, 2022/11/11 14:38

Dear Christian

Yes, sorry I didn't notice that in your comment your choice of a is different from the notes.

Alles Klar!

Regards, Sahiba

Souhadou Diallo, 2022/11/16 22:19

Thank for the clarification

EL-Houcine OUALI, 2022/11/09 18:42

Hello, Thank you very much for this third lecture.

Sahiba Arora, 2022/11/09 15:41, 2022/11/10 00:00

Dear all

First of all, thanks to the virtual lecturers for all the lectures till now and apologies for not participating in the forum sooner.

I have a couple of small doubts:

  1. Am I correct that the second inequality on top of page 33 was obtained using Hölder's?
  2. Proof of Proposition 2.9(a), I don't see how the equality xφ(x)Lf(x)m(x)=xLφ(x)f(x)m(x) is obtained as the former is equal to x,yb(x,y)φ(x)(f(x)f(y))+c(x)φ(x)f(x) but the latter is equal to is equal to x,yb(x,y)f(x)(φ(x)φ(y))+c(x)φ(x)f(x).
  3. Proof of Theorem 2.13: I don't see how the last displayed equation on page 38 is obtained.
  4. Proof of Theorem 2.13: Why does Lut(x)=0 hold for t=T?
  5. Example 2.14: It is claimed that L1x vanishes outside Nx. I see this for zx but not for xNx, because L1x(x)=Deg(x) need not be zero?

Also, a couple of typos:

  • Theorem 2.13: Second bullet point should have [0,T]×U instead of the other way round.
  • Proof of 2.18, first line: I think it should be “(b) and (a) respectively” instead of “(a) and (b) respectively”.
  • Proof of 2.18, (iii) (i): The constants C should be replaced by D.

Lastly, maybe a small suggestion: As the function m:X(0,) gives rise to the corresponding measure, maybe it would be a good idea to just define n:=deg in Section 2.5.2, instead of defining n on the subsets? It just seems more natural to me (unless there is a reason to define it on the subsets first?).

Regards,

Sahiba

Sascha Trostorff, 2022/11/10 21:31

Hi Sahiba,

I have an answer to your second question:

The two terms are in fact equal. Just note that x,yb(x,y)φ(x)(f(x)f(y))=x,yb(x,y)φ(x)f(x)x,yb(x,y)φ(x)f(y)=x,yb(x,y)φ(x)f(x)x,yb(y,x)φ(y)f(x)=x,yb(x,y)f(x)(φ(x)φ(y)) due to the symmetry of b.

Best regards

Sascha

Sahiba Arora, 2022/11/10 21:33

Dear Sascha,

Ah yes, of course. Thanks!

Regards, Sahiba

Christian Seifert, 2022/11/11 11:57

Dear Sahiba,

Many thanks for your questions and comments. Concerning your questions: 1. Yes this is Cauchy–Schwarz (or Hölder with p=q=2 if you like). Just smuggle in b(xi,xi+1)1/2b(xi,xi+1)1/2.

2. See Sascha's answer (@Sascha: Many thanks!)

3. We have that Lut(x)=0, but looking at the first displayed formula on page 39 we see that Lut(x) is a sum of two non-positive terms, so both terms have to be zero. The first term being zero then gives the equality.

4. We have (L+t)ut(x)=0 and tut(x)0, so Lut(x)0. But the fist displayed formula on page 39 also gives Lut(x)0.

5. This is a typo (many thanks for spotting it!): L1x vanishes outside Nx{x}.

Best, Christian

Sahiba Arora, 2022/11/13 00:11

Dear Christian,

Many thanks for your response. I'm still confused about 3 and 4.

For 3, how did you start with the observation that Lut(x)=0? In fact, this is only concluded much later using the last displayed formula on Page 38. So the argument becomes circular.

Moreover, for 4, I think one needs to use that the positivity of (L+t)ut0 carries over to t=T.

Regards, Sahiba

Christian Seifert, 2022/11/20 14:10

Dear Sahiba,

sorry for the confusion and the long silence with respect to your question. As it turns out, you are completely right. One somewhow needes that ttut(x) is continuous at t=T to obtain the last displayed formula on page 38. Moreover, to reason that LuT(x)=0 one needs to know that (L+t)uT0. We hav adusted the statement accordingly.

Many thanks for pointing this out!

Best, Christian

Leon Berghoff-Flüel, 2022/11/09 12:06

Hello everyone,

thank you from the Darmstadt group for the nice lecture. We came up with a simpler proof for the converse direction in Lemma 2.5 (d):

The assumtion lim supnQ(fn)Q(fn) together with proposition 2.4 already implies Q(fn)Q(f). And fn(o)f(o) is just due to the pointwise convergence.

Regards, Leon

Sascha Trostorff, 2022/11/10 21:24

Dear Leon,

that is true, but that is not what Lemma 2.5 (d) claims. You have to show that Q(fnf)0 for the convergence in D, which does not follow from your argumentation.

Best regards Sascha

Joachim Hofmann, 2022/11/07 14:14

Dear all,

first of all thanks to the organizers for the new lecture. I have some remarks respectively questions:

In the proof of Theorem 2.16 the identity l1(Nx,b(x,))={fF| suppfNx} is not obvious to me and I am not sure it holds true. So if anyone knows the reason please let me know. The inclusion l1(Nx,b(x,)){fF| suppfNx} however is easy and sufficient. So maybe it would be an option to present it like that.

Immediately afterwards the constant C0 derived from the closed graph theorem should depend on x, as the respective spaces depend on x. So for all xX we find such a constant Cx0 but not a constant C0 that works for all x.

Regards Joachim.

Leon Berghoff-Flüel, 2022/11/08 19:22

Dear Joachim,

concerning your first question: First of all, one needs to understand that the equality is somewhat formal (maybe would have been better than =) in the sense that suppfNx means we consider the function f to be effectively defined only on Nx. On the right hand side of the equation, we could as well have written F/with fg:f=g on Nx. suppNx then in some sense selects the most natural representant.

Now to why the equality holds: Be aware that 1(Nx,b(x,)) is defined analogously to 2(X,m), i.e. 1(Nx,b(x,))={f|yNx|f(y)||b(x,y)|<}. So b(x,) defines somehow the weight. From this, the equality is quite obvious.

Concerning your second remark, I agree with your observation. Thanks for pointing it out.

Best regards, Leon

Joachim Hofmann, 2022/11/10 12:55

Dear Leon,

thanks for your reply but my problem was not with the definition or how to understand is. The problem is that even though f is supported on Nx we don't know anything about the behaviour of b(z,) on Nx for zx. I came up with the following example:

Let X=N{0}{1} and let b(0,n)=n3, b(1,n)=n2, b(0,1)=0, b(n,m)=0, n,mN. Then we have N0=N1=N. If we now take f(n)=n on N, then supp(f)N0 and yN0|f(y)|b(0,y)=nN1n2<, so fl1(N0,b(0,)). On the other hand, yX|f(y)|b(1,y)=nN1n=, so fF.

Best regards, Joachim.

Leon Berghoff-Flüel, 2022/11/12 11:03

Dear Joachim,

ah, okay, now I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying your remark.

- Leon

Christian Seifert, 2022/11/18 12:30

Dear Joachim and Leon,

Many thanks. You are indeed right: the equality may not be true in general (as your example shows). However, we only need one inclusion, namely {uFsupp(f)Nx}1(Nx,b(x,)), which is true.

Thanks for pointing this out!

Best, Christian

Christian Seifert, 2022/11/18 12:32

Dear Joachim and Leon,

Concerning the constant C. We have fixed xX beforehand, so we actually only need a C which may depend on x. The additional “for all xX” is wrong as stated and not needed; we hay just erased it.

Best, Christian

discussion/lecture03.txt · Last modified: 2022/11/02 08:32 by matcs